Sharkscope ban

[Rado]

Niedawno doszło do zbanowania przez PokerStars najważniejszego programu dla grających SNG - sharkscope`a. Co o tym myślicie?

Moim zdaniem jest to akcja słuszna z moralnego punktu widzenia - przegrywacze mają prawo aby inni o tym nie wiedzieli (generalnie nikt nie powinien mieć szczegółowej wiedzy o turniejach w których nie grał), ale sposób w jaki jest to egzekwowany budzi moje wątpliwości. Pierwszy raz w życiu spotkałem się z sytuacją w której pokerroom zabrania całkowitego odwiedzania strony internetowej (SharkScope - The Largest Online Poker Tournament Results Database) pod rygorem utraty konta i pieniędzy na nim. Rozumiem, żeby zakazać używania programów, ale wizytowania www? Zabronione jest sprawdzenie własnych statystyk, zabronione jest nawet wejście na sharkscope kiedy nie ma się otwartego Pokerstars.

Nie rozumiem też czemu PS pozwala jakimś automatycznym botom zbierać data mining z turniejów SNG. Po prostu powinni dobrać się do skóry zbierającym dane, a nie ostrzegać zwykłych użytkowników przed wchodzeniem na www.

PokerStars jest zdecydowanie numerem 1 wśród wszystkich pokerroomów, ale sposób rozwiązania tej sprawy mi się nie podoba.

[StingnWo]

zabronione jest nawet wejście na sharkscope kiedy nie ma się otwartego Pokerstars.

Z tym to chyba przesadziłeś. Gdzie jest taki zapis?

Sting

[mash]

Rok temu = niedawno?

[StingnWo]

Od roku był pod obserwacją, ostateczna decyzja podjęta w ostatni wtorek.

Sting

[mash]

Nie wiem o co chodzi, ale już od dawna był zabroniony, przynajmniej ich program (nie mówię o stronie)

[Rado]

Program był zabroniony od dawna = w sharkscope hudzie nawet nie miałeś opcji nakładki na pokerstars. Problem polega na tym że wczoraj zbanowano stronę www! Nie wolno w ogóle wchodzić na tą stronę i sprawdzać graczy, nawet jeśli się nie jest podłączonym do internetu. Przesada? Cytaty ze strony pokerstars

The following mini-FAQ answers many of the common questions players are
asking about our policy as regards SharkScope and sites like it.

Q: How can SharkScope be prohibited software when it isn't software?
It's only a website.

A: The policy under which SharkScope is prohibited covers this. We
define prohibited software as programs or databases, and specifically
include websites that contain prohibited data as being themselves
prohibited.

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Q: Why is this considered an unfair advantage? I'm just looking up stats
on whether a player is a winning player or not....

A: Part of the game of poker is in learning about your opponents' skills
and tendencies through game play against them. We believe you should
not be able to come to a game pre-armed with information about your
opponents if you have never played against them. Thus, we explicitly
permit tools that are based upon your own hands played (hand history
analyzers, HUDs and such), but prohibit tools that are based upon
"datamining", or the gathering of hands in which you did not play.

-------------

Q: Why are some sites similar to SharkScope permitted, while SharkScope
is banned?

A: We have drawn a clear dividing line between what a site can show and
what they cannot. Without a player's permission, a site may only show
gross winnings. Net winnings, or ROI, or profitability, may only be
shown if a player opts in and gives explicit permission for his data
to be available to others. In other words, a site can show that you
have cashed in 35 events for prize awards totalling $26,115, but it
cannot show that you entered 511 events and are a net loser over time,
unless you grant permission.

Those sites that have agreed to this policy are not prohibited. Those
sites that have refused to comply with this policy, are prohibited.
Among those sites that have agreed to our policy, that are or very
shortly will be working on an opt-in basis for ROI, and thus will
eventually join the list of permitted programs, are:

officialpokerrankings.com
thepokerdb.com
cardplayer.com

------------

Q: I'm only using it to check my own stats, or looking up players on
another site. That's OK, right?

A: No, it is not. We don't track who you are checking up on. We only
note the access of the website, and don't make a distinction between
who is being looked up, or what site a lookup is for. Any access
to SharkScope while the PokerStars client is running (even to look
up a player on another site) will result in an automated warning.
As such, you may not use SharkScope on other sites while playing on
PokerStars. Any access to SharkScope to look up data on a PokerStars
player (even yourself, even if the PokerStars client is not running)
is prohibited.

Those that want to track their own stats are advised to acquire a
hand history analysis tool, such as PokerTracker, Holdem Manager,
Poker Office, or any number of other explicitlt permitted programs
into which your own hand histories may be imported real-time as
you play. We are happy to provide any player that asks with a copy
of every hand they have ever played on PokerStars.

------------

Q: Can I use SharkScope to look up players before and after my games,
or when the PokerStars software is not running?

A: "Teacher, can I cheat on my exam when you're not looking?"

Just because we aren't watching at the time does not mean that the
rules are suspended. The purpose of the rule is to prevent players
from having information that they should not have, and the rule still
applies before and after the games, difficulty in detection and
enforcement notwithstanding.

------------

Q: Doesn't that mean that someone without scruples and willing to break
the rules by hiding their use of these tools will gain an advantage?

A: Perhaps in the short term. PokerStars remains dedicated to enforcing
a fairness policy equally and to all players. A player that tries
to "stealth" his use of prohibited tools runs the risk of losing his
account and possibly the funds on deposit if they are found to be
in wilfull and knowing violation of our terms. We will continue to
improve both our detection methods and our means of preventing data
gathering in order to keep the playing field as level as can be.

------------

Q: Then why don't you just block SharkScope from gathering the data in
the first place? Why warn the players, when it is SharkScope that
is in greater violation to begin with for gathering the data?

A: This is in the works as well. The player warnings will go hand in
hand with new software features designed to prevent mass datamining
by these sites.

-------------

Q: How did you detect that I was visiting this site? I don't like you
snooping on my computer. What else are you looking at?

A: PokerStars values player privacy (which is one reason we have
implemented this policy). Our terms of service to which you agreed
give us permission to examine certain aspects of your computer for
prohibited programs or accesses. We balance this with privacy by
collecting and storing ONLY that data which relates to prohibited
programs. We do not take screen captures of your screen. We do
not look in your browser cache. We do not take note of your visits
to websites other than those of prohibited programs. We do not
gather any data that is not directly related to prohibit program
mitigation.

[Maro9]

A ja jestem bardzo ciekawy w jaki sposob zamierzacie wykryc kogos kto sprawdza sharkscope z innego komputera i na innym polaczeniu internetowym?

Dla graczy sng hu z wysokich stawek kupno nowego laptopa i kolejnego lacza internetowego to zaden wydatek ( 1 buy in ). Dla calej reszty tez nie za duzy

[Rado]

Nie mogą wykryć dlatego przepis jest martwy. Dziś mój znajomy z zagranicy grał stepa 6 i spytał innego znajomego nie-pokerzystę żeby sprawdził kto jest kto na sharkscope. Gdybym grał na b wysokie stawki 200$+ myślę że sprawdzałbym też na laptopie czy pytałbym znajomych, zaś na moich 27/38$ nie jest to w zasadzie potrzebne jak kto gra od razu widać. W obecnej sytuacji faworyzowane są osoby stawiające przed sobą 2 komputery.

[mash]

Kolega obserwował innego grającego i włączył sharkscope'a, żeby kogoś sprawdzić i nawet wtedy wyskoczył pop-up:

Hello,

It has come to our attention at PokerStars that you are accessing a prohibited third party website known as "SharkScope.com" during your game play.

Perhaps you were unaware that the use of SharkScope was against the rules, but use of this software under any circumstances is against our terms of service. Those terms of service are located here:

Poker Stars - Online Poker Site Terms of Service

Among them are these terms:

5.4. EXTERNAL PLAYER ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS (EPA). PokerStars
prohibits those External Player Assistance Programs ("EPA
Programs") which are designed to provide an "Unfair Advantage"
to players. PokerStars defines "External" to mean computer
software...and non-software-based databases or profiles (e.g.
web sites and subscription services). PokerStars defines
an "Unfair Advantage" as any instance in which a User
accesses or compiles information on other players beyond
that which the User has personally observed through the
User's own game play. We encourage you to read our
Prohibited Online Software FAQ at:

Prohibited Online Poker Software Programs

As SharkScope provides statistics based upon a large database of hands in which you did not play, it is considered to be in violation of this policy.

We are aware that many who receive this alert do not subscribe to SharkScope, but do use the 5 free daily lookups to check their own stats. We do not distinguish between such uses, however, and even this use of SharkScope is prohibited.

For a brief transition period, we will only be issuing this alert. We ask that you stop using SharkScope immediately. On November 15, we will begin closing the accounts of players found to be using SharkScope despite having received and acknowledged a warning.

Thank you for your cooperation in this matter, and for helping us to keep PokerStars' games a fair and level playing field for all players.

Best Regards,

PokerStars Game Security

hehe.

[Stanko111]

To jest śmiechu warte, skoro zamykają nawet stronę to niech sami prowadzą statystyki z sng. Ja tam sprawdzam tylko siebie, bo po co mi wiedzieć czy gram z debilem czy z jeszcze większym debilem?